This type of thing is scary. There is all this big emphasis on safety and not having luggage in the aisle (must fit under the set in front of you etc) and then you have the human road block. I feel sorry for this Graham and understand that he has rights etc but there needs to be a solution.

This is what the CAA is for. They make the tough decisions on airlines and airports. This is going to be a tough decision, Graham's rights against the rights of lots of other travellers.

I agree with the previous comments but if we are going to have a quango decide, I would at least like it to be a decision before an accident rather than an enquiry after an accident.

I too find this to be a problem. It is not just you, I had one very large woman sit in the seat behind me and her knees were constantly banging into my seat back. When she tried to get up, she pulled herself up using my seat back and I thought it would give way.
I am sorry, but think they should not be allowed to board.

Have any of yous heard about discrimination. Leave him alone he has got as much right to a seat as you have if he paid the money and all. What are you going to say that he has to stay in the airport cause he is too fat? He'd have the discrimination people there in no time. The best thing would be to make the seats bigger and then we would all be ok.

Poor old Graham. I bet he wishes that he had sat next to someone else! Seriously though, this is a real problem. I do not know what the airline can sensibly (or probably legally) do about it, but I see the danger that any immobile passengers might create.I, for one, would be interested to hear the views of other readers and am grateful that this has been raised.

An evolution in plane interior design would be nice, giving a bit more space to ‘cattle class’. Being quite tall, I would love a bit of extra legroom.

What do you suggest that big people do? If there was a big section that charged extra for extra space then I would consider that but just saying that we cannot fly because we are bigger than average is wrong.

Amanda Plant says "If there was a big section that charged extra for extra space then I would consider that". Well there is, it is called business class. But that does not solve the whole problem. If you are immobile then you are still going to be a problem in an evacuation. No personal offence intended but this a genuinely interesting debate.

A man from Ryanair told me that people like me used up more fuel and put up prices for everyone. I complained to his supervisor but then he said that he did not say it. (I am overweight and admit it)

I heard of a guy from the states who got ejected from a plane for exceeding the width of his seat. This should be a policy across the board, sitting next to a person overflowing into your seat for 8 hours would be horrendous.

I can imagine that a great number of clinically obese people find long haul flying too uncomfortable/expensive and avoid it altogether. Airline seats are too small for even average sized people, airlines should cut a bit of profit and have bigger seats, that would make me very happy!

Going back to the safety issue raised in the original article, I presume that blind, slow, old and generally disabled passengers fly all of the time. In the event of the evacuation, they are going to be in the way and slow things down. But I presume the same applies in the cinema / theatre etc if there is a fire. I had not thought about this before and I really do not have a answer. I do however see the problem from both viewpoints.

I have to admit that I am overweight and when I fly I do get embarrassed if I have to struggle to get up to let the other person (in the window seat) out. The seats are just so small and there is so little space between the seat and the seat in front. I am very sorry for people that I inconvenience but there is nothing at all that I can do.
As to mobility, I think I am reasonably mobile and do not think that I would hold up the evacuation any more than anyone else.

Passengers need a bit of leniency, we come in all shapes and sizes and all have the right to travel. Being packed in aircraft like sardines is not pleasant but there are no other options.

In Sweden we have made special facilities for big people but airlines are different and this size issue is a real problem. I am sorry for the Graham in the story and perhaps it would be fair to have him pay for a wider seat just as we have to pay for excess baggage. But how do you work this? will airlines have to put in a certain number of larger seats at extra cost? I see the problem but just do not see a working solution.

Paying for two seats seems unreasonable, but perhaps the only valid option for oversized people. They certainly should not be allowed to squeeze into a normal sized seat and make the neighbouring passengers uncomfortable.

I dont think paying for two seats is 'Unreasonable', although I may be seen to be 'controversial' and it is not discrimination, the main feature here has to be safety and the fact that it would take longer to get out of a seat and evacuate the plane, mobility is affected there is no two ways about it! The airlines need to 'rethink'

My friend is big and she says it is awful because everyone looks at her and makes her feel very uncomfortable. It is not her fault, she has been under the doctor and may have to get a band but she does not eat that much and her mother was also big but she died with her heart last year.

We have the problem in the US where there are lots of overweight people. Fast food and fries etc. Most of our internal airlines do enforce the rules and make them purchase two tickets. It may be hard on the passenger's pocket book but it is the fairest way of dealing with this.

I just feel that is is so awful having someone so large next to you too, not being able to move, to go to the loo when you need to as it takes so long just to get out of your seat and the inconvenience of it all, I dread it when I see someone large approaching to sit next to me!!!

Ouch - yes having an obese passenger next to you is horrible. It is certainly not PC to say so and we normally just put up with it. I had a two and half hour flight last month next to a man with BO (body odour) - absolutely disgusting. Can we start a column here for people I don't want to fly with? dangerous ground I think !!

Nothing worse than body odour Miranda, totally sympathise, have had this issue with someone sitting next to me as well, ruined my flight, and it was long haul!!

Yes, I agree with (most) of the comments above. Another issue in the same vein is maximum allowable weight. The airlines should weigh the passenger AND his luggage, certainly both go on the plane? We travel often and are between 50-75 Kg per family member, yet we may only take the regulation allowable weight and the very large, too big for his/her seat passenger, gets the same allowance? THIS is unfair!

Reading these comments,I feel I must bring up the question of over weight baggage.Last year I travelled 12 times and nearly always have to pay for excess baggage,I often think we should be weighed with our luggage,when I see obese people not paying extra,,,we all board the same plane and their weight is`nt added on...

Yes I agree with Henry, weighing the passenger and luggage together should be part of the maximum allowable weight on flights, this makes a lot of sense.

Can you imagine people to agreeing to being 'weighed' before they got on a plane!! I think not....I for one would be too embarrassed!!

I think we should go further. No fat people. No tall people. Certainly no one over 60. Definitely no disabled of any age. Absolutely NO annoying children. That should leave plenty of room for all you perfect, pompous, pontificating prats.

Charging for the combined weight of passenger and baggage and then a separate charge for plane seats seems the only fair way to deal with this. Future aircraft should definitely have a quota of extra large seats with more legroom for cattle class and then charge a reasonable amount extra for them.

I agree with the comment made above by Graham. This seems like the only fair solution. Overweight people should not be discriminated but obviously there are serious safety concerns.

Jan's comment say it all really!

It is an uncomfortable experience being next to 'an overweight' person on a aircraft, for both actual person and the one sitting next to them, I do feel the airline needs to consider this aspect too.

Oh for goodness sake when are we going to stop being so accepting? I pay for my seat on a plane. It's small enough in cattle class already without having to share it with some overweight person who is too large to fit into their own seat. Please explain to me why I should have to be inconvenienced in this way?
You want to be fat, good for you, but I don't want to have to put up with the consequences of your actions. In fact I don't, I always insist that the armrests are down!

I have just found this forum and loved this article.
Graham sounds a great guy but really not the kind of passenger that I would want to sit next to.

I find all your comments a bit unfair with regard to overweight people, I cannot help it, I wish I could but the medication I take is responsible for my weight, I am embarrassed about it believe me, it is difficult for me to travel because of my size, could you all not be a bit more sympathetic about this instead of discriminating against size?

Why should the majority of society be accepting of persons who are morbidly obese ? I sat next to a large gentleman only today on a flight, and I can assure you it was a most uncomfortable experience for both of us. If he'd booked himself two seats (as airlines should force him to), then we would have both travelled in comfort.
I would like someone to explain why this is discrimination. Should we all wear pegs on our noses so as not to discriminate against people with BO (also a "medical condition" - in a small percentage of cases).

I think Jan's comments are fair, however there should be other options for obese travellers, they may be fat but they are still human.

I think that just because somebody is obese they should not be treated any differentlyl. Personally i think that on all aircraft there should be seats set aside that can accomodate the lager people.

I agree with Jan! Why should larger people be treated wrongly because they are overweight? It is discrimination!

I think that Georgie is being naive. If you are too big to fit the standard seat then you need to pay for a bigger seat. The only complaint here is that airlines do not readily provider seats for larger people.

I know that some people are over weight because of health problems but some people choose to be obese. I agree with some of the comments above but some are a litle extreme.

I think everybody should pay the same fare after all we are all human! Everybody should be treated the same in my opinion

Jan & Graham are tossers, I have just come back from Egypt, in december,Im 22 stone, a very able construction worker.
I had paid for 3 extra leg room seats, on my return flight, once sat in the seat i got asked to move, due to my size, I was more able than 99% of the other travellers to open any door,or move quickly, this was due to health and safety.
Strangley enough there were a west coast family in the front seats of the plane, they had not paid for this privilage. when asked to move by a stewardess they refused,they could have had tha same room but at the door, instead I had to move to a seat beside a man, same built as myself. I felt this was not fair, I paid the money to have leg room, but usual weegies take the mick. what should have been done in that case.?????

It is definitely a tough one, both morally and for safety.

Grant, you might want to re-read Jan's comments, she was being sarcastic!!
I think it's the airlines responsibility to cater for the larger person. Saying people should buy two seats is all very well but it is not financially feasible for a lot of people. My father is just as mobile as the next person but is overweight due to medical reasons and would not have the money to pay double for travelling and I would hate for him to be told he couldn't fly (I have forgotten whether we are arguing about someone not being able to fly because they are immobile or overweight!).
Someone asked to move seats away from him on a trip once which solved the problem for both parties. When economy class is fully booked, maybe the airline will put customer service first and bump you up to business class! But I doubt it. Which brings me back to my initial point that I think it's the airlines responsibility to ensure the comfort of ALL it's travellers!

I am overweight , I admit it . During a Rynair flight recently I sat next to a slim female reporter and she did nothing but whinge. We are not all the same build so why are all the aircraft seats the same size ?
3 widths should suffice one for Petite (or children) one for Normal and one size for Fatties. The airline can then charge accordingly as we know that it is the gross weight of the aircraft that affects the fuel consumption and therefore cost of the flight.
Most people have to pay extra when their luggage exceeds the baggage allowance, This should apply to people too. A ten stone (140lb or 63.5 kg) passenger will have to pay on average £10 for every kg overweight on luggage yet a twenty stone person (280lb or 127 kg) will pay nothing extra despite taking up much more room and being 'overweight ' (luggage wise) by an extra 65 kg.

It is about time that the whole space issue on aircraft was addressed. We have for too long been shunted into seats that are too small.

Lardasses are that way because they are weak willed and just eat too much. Nobody forces them to stuff globs of fat rich processed food into their gullets and they have the ability to lose weight as well.
It should be the responsibility of the passeneger to ensure they are not too big for a single seat, if they are then if seats are available they should have to purchase an extra one, if no seats are available, they should be bumped.

I mean really have some of you heard yourselves, your rude, arragant and dam right out of order! Large people deserve to go on holiday just as much as a skinny people! I'm sicked by John's comment amoung others.
Everyone isn't the same size and they shouldn't be. Ok for instance if large people are told to they have to buy another seat, then ugly people should be told wear a bag over their head as to not scare the other passengers, or people in wheelchairs must not travel in case of an accident....Its just bonkers!
Everyone should have the right to travel in comfort and without discrimination! Its 2011 for goodness sake! Look i'm promoting obesity but the airlines should increase their seat width and leg room for everyone.

just came across this page!!!
what a disgrace most of you are.... ban fat people? weigh them? if they cause you that much discomfort why dont you but two seats to prevent you from sitting next to you!
should we then only charge skinny people half the fair? cause they only take up half the room?
the real issue is the cheap airlines who want to cram as many people in to 1 flight to make themselves more money, smaller seats, less leg room etc. are people that stupid to think that the weight really has an impact have you ever been refused extra baggage? no! why cause the only reason why they charge is to make more money. you narrow minded people think its acceptble to embarras, humiliate an overweight passanger just so you can not be inconvienced, grow up. maybe we should only let people with compassion, decency and a decent IQ on a plane which would elimate the majoity of the narrow minded.

Having read Jen's comment (above) I think she is being unfair. I have re-read the original article and would say that Catriona was very fair. This is not anti fat people but is a genuine issue that needs to be discussed and hopefully resolved.
Catriona makes the very good point that, in the event of an emergency, having someone hemming you in like she described could cost you your life.
We all have to live together, fat and thin, we just need to ensure that the proper facilities are available. The airlines will not do this by themselves. We have to discuss and bring this out into the open.

There are several issues here. Firstly if we say big people are a safety issue, who is going to tell those unable to walk, see or hear that they cannot fly either for safety reasons?
Secondly, comfort, why don't the airlines make the wider seats in business class a little more affordable to those of us who have a larger than average girth.
By the way, not everyone is obese because they eat too much, drugs can make you swell beyond the width of the average airline seat. Even if you are obese for the usual reasons why embarrass these poor souls who already feel like outcasts. If it were more affordable I cannot think of anyone who would not willingly upgrade to a seat that fits them.
Thirdly, cattle class seating is so tight even able bodied, healthy slim people are suffering in the overcrowding with ailments such as deep vein thrombosis. Far more people would fly even on short hauls if the airlines just recognised that their passengers are people and not cattle!

I am disgusted by some of the comments on here. Not all big people are fat because of what they eat. Many, like me, suffer from arthritis and have other medical conditions that do not allow us to burn of the smallest low fat meals. On top of this some of the drugs we take also add to the weight problems. I was once, one of the fittest people you could ever know but my disabilities stop me from doing almost anything, even walking hurts. Should this mean I can not go on holiday, or fly to see my friends and relatives. I don't believe so. Just provide me with a wider seat and I will pay the extra. I dont want it for free or to spoil anyone elses flight but I do have a right to travel.

HOW HURTFUL!!!
But most of you are right, i am a 27 yr old fatty who just wants to eat myself to death and not wash myself and'spill over' into you skinny moaners flight seat, NOT!

F.Y.I I have two beautiful children and am a makeup artist who showers regularly OH YES IM A HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS,and just wanted to visit my friend in the u.s who had a very traumatising miscarraige over Xmas, now i am terrified of going for fear you will all be there to burn me at the stake KKK style no less. This is discrimination, excruciating!

I hope you have fat children and you see how hard it is and it was your fault 4 replacing love with food,you heartless people...

Simple answer 'bigger seats' why is this so debatable? you are pointlessly arguing when there is the quickest of solutions,Although we are an easy target to pick on because WE ARE SO HUGE!!!

Rant over

TRY BEING INFORMED INSTEAD OF JUST OPINIONATED.
WE ARE ONLY HUMAN

The reality is simple, I am a 6'4" man that has a large frame but I am not obese al though I would say of my self that I am a little overweight although I have freinds that would disagree and say I am average. When flying (I have made 100's of flights because of my work)I barely fit between the arms on the seats and my knees normally are touching the seat back infront of me. I have at times ended up bruised on the hips from the narrow seats. It is clear to me that the standard seat size being used by most airlines is based on the averages size of a person as measured 40 years ago when people my size were uncommon.Today in the western world men my size are common and I regularly find myself looking up to speak to men taller than myself. This is something that never happened to me 25 years ago. The airlines need to get with the times and stop trying to pack in as many passengers as possible. The seats need more room between rows and they need to provide wider seating

I wondered when people would start talking about weighing passengers. I think it's a shame that people focus on their individual entitlements to the point where they are unable to share space or accommodate fellow humans.
The shrill skinny folk who are complaining could sit in business class. Might cost a bit more, but so what - you don't seem to think this would be a problem for others. This idea that someone else should pay is invidious. I bet you take a calculator to a restaurant to make sure you're not subsidising the person who had an extra drink. Did you complain when your sibling got a bigger slice of cake? I am large and pretty fit with it, I work out twice a week and I think I'm more mobile than your average pensioner or mother with baby. Perhaps they shouldn't travel either. Dont want to squeeze past a fattie? Sit in an aisle seat. Or perhaps they should charge for the loo, then you could fast before flying and save a few more pounds.

I have read a few of the comments. I'm hoping to go to New York (my first ever holiday due to money) and I'm overweight. I wear size 26 jeans (though they are too big, the smaller size are too small) top wise i'm big busted (in general) and my shoulder are wide (as are my shoulder bones). thing is, people who are overweight all have different body shapes. I have big thighs, my mum has skinny legs but is bigger in general. I fit into old theatre seats (though getting out is stupidly odd because i have zero leg room). I fit perfectly and comfortably in cinema VUE seats with my friends who are skinny. now, my issue is that I'm not the size of two seats, if i'm paying for room then wouldn't i pay for one and a bit. I'm guessing I would fit in the seat but more room would be nice, but i don't want to pay double (or whatever) for two seats. lets throw it over, a girl is anorexic, she's half the size of the seat...does she pay half? no. it would be wrong...just saying.

An average is, by definition midway between too extremes. In the case of airplane or theatre seats an average sized seat does not discriminate against those with eating disorders which make them too small. Only against those who are obese. However the average dress size for women in the UK is size 16 . I am a dress size 22 IAlso happen to be 5ft 10ins tall) this is a clothes size readily available in M&S stores. If M&S acknowledges and provides for size 22 women how come airlines cannot? I cannot fasten their seat belts, neither can I wedge myself into the Seats in the back stalls of the Bristol Hippodrome or the Colston Hall. It is not as if these places ever advertise the dimensions of their seats for us to make an informed choice. No they sell us the ticket, take our money and then let us suffer in extreme discomfort for hours. Shame on any of the smug beggars who condemn us.... I wish obesity on you for one year!

Having travelled long haul in the past all I can say to big passengers of who I am one is check out flight guru or seat expert for airlines individual seat pitch and seat widths.
Travelling to Australia for instance you can have two extremes in "cattle class" with Qantas and the very much newer Airbus A380 offering seat pitches of 31" and seat width of 18.1" versus the likes of Qatar airways older Boeing 777 300lr seat pitch 34" and seat widths of 19". Business class for Qantas the leg room rockets to 80" and seat width to 21.5 against Qatar business pitch of 78" and width of 22". Qantas offer "Premium economy" pitch of 38"-42" and width of 21.5.
Qatar dont offer "Premium economy" as yet.
But comparing long haul with the likes of Ryannair where their fleet offer seat pitches of a miserly 30" with seat widths of 17" and no business or premium economy enhancement is like comparing the proverbial chalk with cheese.
Simply put, if your flying long haul you have choices, shorthaul you dont

I have read these comments with interest, I am overweight and do get embarrassed, I do manage to sit in a cattle class seat but find it difficult when people in front of me recline their seat, I get very claustrophobic and am unable to use my table, I think as their is so little room seats should not recline. and don't worry on a very odd occasion when I have had to ask for an extension to mt seat belt the stewards have enjoyed embarrassing me in front of the whole plane.
As to having extra room size seats I would be quit happy to pay for that, The problem is you will get the people who do not want us near them will then want to buy these seats because they will then say they are discriminated against.